Subscribe RSS FeedI work at Infusionsoft where we all have lots of PASSION towards our product. Yesterday I recevied a disheartening email from someone talking about how AWeber has far superior deliverability and open rates.
I was concerned, we track email deliverability very closely. I work very closely with the Support Reps and with our Email Deliverability expert Ryan Peterson. I’ve worked at an ISP where email deliverability was a problem and you hear about it, fast! We don’t have that problem. Occasionaly someone calls about a problem, but almost without exception the problem is not ours, but rather a slow MTA in someone else’s network, or an incorrect address, or sometimes a spammer whose account was disabled due to spamming. Occasionaly we get a rash of spammers and our value ip’s drop to below 96% deliverability but it’s not frequent.
So why do people believe AWeber has better deliverability? I heard a rumor that it was because if someone opens an email twice, AWeber’s front page open metric counts it as two opens instead of one… I thought “that is unlikely”. If it’s true, then Open Rates and Click rates are not a good comparison because we report them differently. Even though as a programmer, I thought it would be silly for them to report opens and clicks that way I decided to find out for myself. I signed up for a demo account. Prepared a list with three addresses, opted them in, and sent a message. I opened one of them. I closed it, and opened it again. I clicked the link a few times… The click definitely worked, but the open was still correct… Hmm… I thought… What if the tracking image is getting cached, and that’s why it isn’t working? So, I cleared my cache and tried again. VIOLA! I was able to rack up as many opens as I wanted. I now have a broadcast in my AWeber account with 12 Open, and 6 clicks, but that only went to three recipients. What does this mean? If someone opens the message on another computer, or through webmail, or webmail in two different browsers, or forwards the message to another email address. All of these scenarios will without a doubt be reported as multiple opens in AWeber.
I feel much better now, and more confident knowing for myself that our deliverability is still world class.
To satisfy the new FTC guidelines… I did this blog post of my own accord, after hours, at home, and not for any compensation , payment, or bonus (monetary or otherwise).
Edit: After reading Tom’s comment, apparently there is a way to view unique opens. However, since my account was canceled prematurely, I can’t go see how easy it is to find or use.
Well done, Joey! Good, timely evidence will win every case. It is great to combat rumor and opinion with hard facts.
At Infusionsoft, we don’t pull any shenanigans with our deliverability reporting. True deliverability numbers let our customers make better, more accurate business decisions about their email content, frequency and subject lines to get their messages to their customers’ inbox without being lulled into a false sense of security that their email campaigns are more effective than they really are.
It is also important to remember that with email deliverability, there are 3 key ingredients to getting your email delivered:
1. Email Systems Infrastructure
2. Industry Partnerships and ISP Relations
3. Sender Practices
Infusionsoft nails number 1. and 2., and while Infusionsoft can help with the third ingredient of excellent email deliverability, ultimately it is the responsibility of the sender for the marketing and promotional content and sending practices, and maintaining their good email sending reputation.
Oh, by the way, I really like your FTC disclaimer. Here is one for me
:
I am the Vice President of Development and Technology at Infusionsoft and I’m responsible for all email deliverability for the organization. I’m paid to get the job done. This post does not provide any legal advice and readers should consult with their own lawyer for legal advice. Blah, blah… and blah!
blah, blah…. and blah.
You are the man Joey!
Joey – Just the other day, I heard a customer say they were getting a 110% deliverability rate with Aweber!? Ummm… sorry, but that’s impossible. Thanks for posting your Aweber test results… they confirm that Aweber does not track UNIQUE opens & click-throughs… thus significantly skewing their reported results and pulling the wool over the eyes of a LOT of their customers. As a marketer, there are few things more upsetting than learning your results are less rosy than reported.
Joey,
Appreciate you testing a hypothesis, but your conclusion is wrong. You’re looking at a single number in one spot which indicates *total* opens, not unique opens which are found on a different report.
http://img.skitch.com/20091125-e4qux32q92mtdab1w955byg3nt.png
https://www.aweber.com/users/analytics_reports/opens
The only way opens and email delivery have anything to do with one another is that opens will always be less on a network with lower deliverability.
I’ve noticed similar situations when it comes to using Aweber in comparison with Infusionsoft. The reporting is different as well as how the clicks interact with each other. If you want inflated stats that gives you the nice little fuzzies then go with Aweber. However, if your looking for true accurate data than I’d go for Infusionsoft any day. Great post Joey!
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Great post, Joey. I’ve always wondered about the difference in the reporting across different platforms, and this sheds some light on the inflated numbers. Thanks!
Hey Tom,
Thanks for commenting. However, I’m not sure I agree with your last statement. Opens and deliverability definitly have a lot to do with each other. In fact, if the same message is sent to two equal (but unique) lists via two different networks, in theory, the open rate *should* be directly proportional to the deliverability of the two networks. Bear in mind the lists have to be large enough, and the recipients have to be “equal” in terms of likelihood to open the message. Thus, marketers focus on open rates. After all, the more people that see their message the more money they make.
I think the problem is that the non-unique open rate metric is so prominent in your product that many people get the impression that you have superior deliverability to Infusionsoft, based on this metric alone. Which I do not believe is true.
Joey
Thanks for this great post Joey. I really enjoyed it. So much so that I spotlighted it on my own blog: http://imarketingmavens.com/2009/11/the-daunting-deliverability-dispute-infusionsoft-vs-aweber/
I have this conversation with clients about deliverability all of the time. Now I have tangible evidence I can show them, reinforcing Infusionsoft’s stats.
Thanks again,
Jarrod Morris
Tom,
P.S. Could you please re-enable my trial account? When I logged in to check out the unique open report, I saw this screen: http://joeynovak.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/aweber_closed_my_account.png
I realize your TOS gives you great latitude (as all TOS’s do). But, I think it’s a little unfair to cancel my account. If you really don’t want to, perhaps you could refund my $1?
If you’d like to sign up for a trial account of Infusionsoft you can do so here: http://www.infusionsoft.com/pricing
Thanks!
Joey
Wow, they disabled your free trial? What do they have to hide??
Joey,
The information was very helpful to understand how open rates and “deliverability” is calculated across the industry. I would expect that an open on an email is boolean, not an integer.
However, I must praise Aweber for including the metric of multiple opens on an email so one could gather how engaging a message is and measure it possibly against the unique views. As the shift from traditional email engagement evolves, the more data, the better it is for marketers.
I find it remarkably telling when they terminated a customer’s account with no basis or grounds to do so. This indicates that Aweber feels as those your observations were valid and threatening, rather than use this as an opportunity to help you, they try to hide it.
Tom Kulzer’s response is unmistakably ambiguous while he potentially violated the company’s Privacy Policy of disclosing customer information when he posted that screenshot of the account’s activity, presumably without your consent.
In the Aweber Privacy Policy, it states:
(Emphasis, mine.)
Given the disclosure and termination of your account information, it would give rise to their capricious enforcement of their policies and ability to handle technical discussion on open rates in the email industry.
-concerned.
Oh, please. They don’t have anything to hide. Maybe they just got tired of getting poked at by competitors looking to complain about something stupid like unique vs total opens. Yes, both metrics matter. Yes, they should be clearly labeled. But no, this is hardly damning evidence that Aweber is somehow misleading people and no, it is not some magic proof that somehow Infusionsoft has better deliverability.
No, I’m not a client of either company. Just somebody who has been working in this industry for 10+ years.
I love Infusionsoft but have to say that I don’t think Infusionsoft’s deliverability is as good as awebers. I say this because several of my Infusionsoft clients use both systems and sometimes the others as well.
What I know from helping them is that they clearly make less money when they broadcast mail with Infusionsoft vs broadcasting with something else like aweber or constant contact.
Click tracking aside, they’ve split tested time and again and the end result is that the orders that come in are less when broadcasting with Infusionsoft.
Generally they just suck it up and decide to do sequenced emails with Infusionsoft (because nothing can sequence like Infusionsoft does) and try to do bigger broadcasts through their other systems.
Even if the deliverability can be beat by something else (which seems to be still up for debate here), Infusionsoft does so much more than the other systems that there is no comparison as a software.
People who whine about deliverability with Infusionsoft usually aren’t looking at the big picture. The smart ones will find a way to work with mulitple systems if they need it that bad.
Deliverability, customer service and incredible software capabilities are reasons I am making the switch for myself and larger clients to Infusionsoft. If I am unable to have my client’s emails delivered to the major esp’s in their area (Cableone and Qwest- are the major players for my local lists, not gmail or Yahoo) and my email service provider (Aweber) tells me to figure it out myself (contact esps with a list of emails I want delivered) – what am I paying them for?
In fact, Aweber’s customer service is so terrible that I will never use them again for small business accounts.
Hi guys,
I can assure 100% that Infusion might deliver well but sending back important emails like ORDERS etc then it fails.
After testing internal mail, external mail and also other whole domains Infusion still fails to send US these emails.
I have contact support and all i got was it must be OUR servers. Even when testing GMAIL etc.
When i asked exactly how they figured that… they could not come back with a REAL reason but we can see it happening.
Regards
Phillip
Hi Phillip,
Thanks for commenting. I apologize that you aren’t getting Order notifications and such. I am on the eCommerce team and would like to figure out what’s wrong. I sent you an email, send me details on what’s going on and we’ll get to the bottom of it.
Joey
I’ve been looking into infusion, but is it really worth it’s salt?
It does look like a really good system but is the deliverbility really that bad?
Dan
[...] become a little easier. (Editor’s note: Joey also recently uncovered interesting stats on how AWeber displays their email deliverability to users.)4. What’s your passion outside of work and can you tell us more about it? See above. [...]
Hi Joey
Thanks for interesting example. As a future AR user, I found it thought provoking.
They lost an apple, you gained an orange.
Regards
Stephen
Joey I am one of Awebers older clients and I am pretty sure there is NO SUCH THING as “unique opens ” Only on the updated expensive model. It is good to know that I have to take the opens with a pinch of salt as they are likely inaccurate. I would just like to say while I am here. That if you are looking for accurate information about Aweber at the Warrior forum. Forget it!! They must be in bed with Aweber somehow as the various threads about deliver-ability which I posted to (Which IMHO do believe they have deliver ability issues, especially to Gmail. and have opened tickets that have been unhelpful.) Have been deleted and the Threads about Aweber being Compromised LOCKED prematurely. I had various complaints about giving away my subscribers info to spammers which I defended Aweber, With terms like “Bullet Proof” Only to find out 5 months later they were hacked. Making me look like a dick. As an older subscriber I am sticking with them on price at the moment ( IMHO IS is off the market charging per email) and are not 100% sure they are giving the older subscribers the same service as the new high margin clients.
Thanks for the comment Allan, that stinks that your threads were deleted, and other important ones were locked.
The real win you get from Infusionsoft is the Automation Engine. We have customers who have completly automated their business and that’s where the big win comes from. One example is “All About Spelling”, we did a case stufy for them where our marketing guy went to their home and fully implemented Infusionsoft, their sales were up 149% (not an increase of 49%, but an increate of 149%) in 3 months. See: http://www.infusionsoft.com/aas-story